Comments on: Christians Consuming Alcohol http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/ Pantokrator.org ~ The Christianos.org Blog ~ 2 Timothy 4:2 Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:41:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: J.M. http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-74306 J.M. Sun, 03 Aug 2008 04:42:41 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-74306 I turned 19 recently and have never had a desire to drink alcohol. I always attributed this 'gift' to the Lord but I am beginning to believe my abstinence is merely a form of pride. In the past I would always look down on my friends and others who I knew were drinkers. Especially when I knew they were drinking to get drunk my pride swelled because I knew what was right and I was doing just what God had asked me to do and I would go to heaven. Pride has been my greatest of stumbling blocks, and thankfully the Spirit has relieved me of a lot of it, but still pride remains. Right now I am struggling with a conclusion for alcohol in my life. I have never used alcohol on purpose (mouthful or so by accident thinking it was grape juice etc). I understand the evils of alcohol; I can see the destructive use in society as virtually all of my friends took some bad roads during high school. I am in the midst of trying to understand my abstinence. I am unsure whether it is God-given or a clever trick of the devil to make me think I am being righteous while I am actually a glutton for not drinking, swimming in pride. The reason I have begun to search for answer is because I want to enjoy life more. As I have come to know the Lord more recently, I do not feel as though I am acting or living with His joy. I feel sometimes like my faith causes me to be cold, causes me to stare instead of smile at people. Sometimes I feel as though my faith is detrimental to joy, to fun, to life and I realize now that my faith is not meant to be like that at all. I am happy, I am thankful for all the wonderful things in my life, for avoidance of addictions in my teen years and for just being so close to God. I want to live in this joy, not simply leave it to my bedtime prayer. I have my Lord, the joy of the Spirit within and a testimony of a a pretty clean life. I know that all I need to be happy is Him, I believe this. I am happy, but I feel as though I am isolated and I want to share my joy and zeal for life with my loved ones. I spent my first year at university virtually alone. Naturally, living at home takes away from the campus experience but nonetheless I never felt like I did anything to connect to people, or to have fun. I just feel like I did nothing, perhaps mostly out of fear of alcohol. I am a social person, but I have troubling issues with even the thought of alcohol. Until recently the words alcohol or party or night club would immediately render a feeling of 'no no no' almost as if the thoughts should not enter my mind. I always thought this was God's way of telling me to abstain but I feel now that the only reason I abstained, apart from the law and love for my parents, was not out of love for the Lord but out of my own pride. I want to be in the world but not of the world. I want to enjoy the life that God has given me. Until now my abstinence has only caused me to distance myself from my friends whom I love. As well, I am not so sure it has brought me closer to God in my relationship with Him. My girlfriend, whom I love dearly and I know loves the Lord, has begun a moderate consumption of alcohol and clubbing with her friends as she is living in a distant city for most of the summer. She has suggested to me that it is enjoyable, though often overrated, and that she can see alcohol in a moderate sense can enhance life. I want to enjoy dancing and having a glass of wine to celebrate our four years together, I do not want what seems to be an insecurity destroy that. I pray that this abstinence, or what I am now beginning to see as a fear of alcohol or possibly a form of pride, will not distance me from her. I am now beginning to see that maybe it is time I had a glass of two of wine. That perhaps I can enjoy life more through what God has created. I have no desire to be drunk, and I believe, God willing, I never will be drunk; not by my own efforts of prideful abstinence, but by the Spirit within. Whether it be by coming to meet my friends with a smile instead of a condemning stare or by coming to grow closer with my beloved, I know that if I do choose to drink moderately then, by the Spirit, it will be glorifying to God. Regardless of that, I believe that all pleasures do come from God, and that God wants us to enjoy those pleasures. Satan's role is to bring those pleasures, like sex and alcohol, to a state that they are not what God intended them to be: unnatural. God wants us to enjoy sex, but only if we are married. God may indeed want us to enjoy alcohol, but only if we do not become drunk. I have prayed much over this, and I know that this writing may not mark the end of this battle in my heart, but I am faithful that He is leading me in the right direction. I pray that these thoughts would be useful to a restless heart. I turned 19 recently and have never had a desire to drink alcohol. I always attributed this ‘gift’ to the Lord but I am beginning to believe my abstinence is merely a form of pride. In the past I would always look down on my friends and others who I knew were drinkers. Especially when I knew they were drinking to get drunk my pride swelled because I knew what was right and I was doing just what God had asked me to do and I would go to heaven. Pride has been my greatest of stumbling blocks, and thankfully the Spirit has relieved me of a lot of it, but still pride remains.

Right now I am struggling with a conclusion for alcohol in my life. I have never used alcohol on purpose (mouthful or so by accident thinking it was grape juice etc). I understand the evils of alcohol; I can see the destructive use in society as virtually all of my friends took some bad roads during high school. I am in the midst of trying to understand my abstinence. I am unsure whether it is God-given or a clever trick of the devil to make me think I am being righteous while I am actually a glutton for not drinking, swimming in pride.

The reason I have begun to search for answer is because I want to enjoy life more. As I have come to know the Lord more recently, I do not feel as though I am acting or living with His joy. I feel sometimes like my faith causes me to be cold, causes me to stare instead of smile at people. Sometimes I feel as though my faith is detrimental to joy, to fun, to life and I realize now that my faith is not meant to be like that at all. I am happy, I am thankful for all the wonderful things in my life, for avoidance of addictions in my teen years and for just being so close to God. I want to live in this joy, not simply leave it to my bedtime prayer.

I have my Lord, the joy of the Spirit within and a testimony of a a pretty clean life. I know that all I need to be happy is Him, I believe this. I am happy, but I feel as though I am isolated and I want to share my joy and zeal for life with my loved ones. I spent my first year at university virtually alone. Naturally, living at home takes away from the campus experience but nonetheless I never felt like I did anything to connect to people, or to have fun. I just feel like I did nothing, perhaps mostly out of fear of alcohol. I am a social person, but I have troubling issues with even the thought of alcohol. Until recently the words alcohol or party or night club would immediately render a feeling of ‘no no no’ almost as if the thoughts should not enter my mind. I always thought this was God’s way of telling me to abstain but I feel now that the only reason I abstained, apart from the law and love for my parents, was not out of love for the Lord but out of my own pride.

I want to be in the world but not of the world. I want to enjoy the life that God has given me. Until now my abstinence has only caused me to distance myself from my friends whom I love. As well, I am not so sure it has brought me closer to God in my relationship with Him. My girlfriend, whom I love dearly and I know loves the Lord, has begun a moderate consumption of alcohol and clubbing with her friends as she is living in a distant city for most of the summer. She has suggested to me that it is enjoyable, though often overrated, and that she can see alcohol in a moderate sense can enhance life. I want to enjoy dancing and having a glass of wine to celebrate our four years together, I do not want what seems to be an insecurity destroy that. I pray that this abstinence, or what I am now beginning to see as a fear of alcohol or possibly a form of pride, will not distance me from her.

I am now beginning to see that maybe it is time I had a glass of two of wine. That perhaps I can enjoy life more through what God has created. I have no desire to be drunk, and I believe, God willing, I never will be drunk; not by my own efforts of prideful abstinence, but by the Spirit within. Whether it be by coming to meet my friends with a smile instead of a condemning stare or by coming to grow closer with my beloved, I know that if I do choose to drink moderately then, by the Spirit, it will be glorifying to God.

Regardless of that, I believe that all pleasures do come from God, and that God wants us to enjoy those pleasures. Satan’s role is to bring those pleasures, like sex and alcohol, to a state that they are not what God intended them to be: unnatural. God wants us to enjoy sex, but only if we are married. God may indeed want us to enjoy alcohol, but only if we do not become drunk. I have prayed much over this, and I know that this writing may not mark the end of this battle in my heart, but I am faithful that He is leading me in the right direction. I pray that these thoughts would be useful to a restless heart.

]]> By: Noah http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-72981 Noah Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:01:48 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-72981 You know guys, I hear a lot of legalistic talk here. Terry, only you know when you're drunk. Just remember that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ so if you're sitting at home and you drink too much, you aren't going to hell. On the other hand, getting drunk puts you at a moral disadvantage. We do our worst when we're drunk. We yell cruel things at people we love, hurt people, and fall in to sexual sins we may never have done had we been of a sober mind. So don't think I'm saying just because Christ's death covers your sin you shouldn't worry about being drunk, but also don't sit around with a breathalizer checking to see if you've sinned or not. If you're going to do that, you've missed the point. Not legalism, but Christ. God isn't sitting up there with a blood-alcohol meter going "Oh, now you've done it, if you'd stopped with glass number 3 you'd have been ok, but now you've sinned." Remember that all of us sin every few minutes in our mind. We sin more than we'll ever know. Drinking too much hinders you from experiencing the abundant life that God has for us. Thats all. You know guys, I hear a lot of legalistic talk here. Terry, only you know when you’re drunk. Just remember that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ so if you’re sitting at home and you drink too much, you aren’t going to hell. On the other hand, getting drunk puts you at a moral disadvantage. We do our worst when we’re drunk. We yell cruel things at people we love, hurt people, and fall in to sexual sins we may never have done had we been of a sober mind. So don’t think I’m saying just because Christ’s death covers your sin you shouldn’t worry about being drunk, but also don’t sit around with a breathalizer checking to see if you’ve sinned or not. If you’re going to do that, you’ve missed the point. Not legalism, but Christ. God isn’t sitting up there with a blood-alcohol meter going “Oh, now you’ve done it, if you’d stopped with glass number 3 you’d have been ok, but now you’ve sinned.” Remember that all of us sin every few minutes in our mind. We sin more than we’ll ever know. Drinking too much hinders you from experiencing the abundant life that God has for us. Thats all.

]]> By: TERRY http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-60079 TERRY Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:38:41 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-60079 This is something that I have been struggling with lately. I understand it as I believe most do in this thread. Drinking is ok, but Drunk is sinfull and not from God. The whole concern that I have is at what point is considered Drunk. Many factors come into play such as tolerance, size, etc. I enjoy having 3 drinks and I set that as my limit. Those 3 drinks (1-2 times average per week) help me to relax and I look forward to those times. I don't feel at a loss of control at all, but it does make me feel good, like a cup of coffe helps me to wake up. I guess my whole problem is at what point is it a blessing from God and at what point is it a sin (Drunk)? We could of course use a breathalizer as a guide, but that is mans guide to what he feels drunk is not God's. Any thoughts? This is something that I have been struggling with lately. I understand it as I believe most do in this thread. Drinking is ok, but Drunk is sinfull and not from God. The whole concern that I have is at what point is considered Drunk. Many factors come into play such as tolerance, size, etc. I enjoy having 3 drinks and I set that as my limit. Those 3 drinks (1-2 times average per week) help me to relax and I look forward to those times. I don’t feel at a loss of control at all, but it does make me feel good, like a cup of coffe helps me to wake up. I guess my whole problem is at what point is it a blessing from God and at what point is it a sin (Drunk)? We could of course use a breathalizer as a guide, but that is mans guide to what he feels drunk is not God’s. Any thoughts?

]]> By: Greg http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-285 Greg Sun, 19 Feb 2006 04:25:29 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-285 In the Bible wine is a good thing because it symbolizes the harvest and the abundance of God's provision. Wine at a meal could be understood as a celebration honoring God's care and love for us. A little wine can also have medicinal benefits. My Gandfather actully had a glass of doctor-ordered wine every night before bed. In the Bible, it helped Timothy with his stomach problems. This is not how we treat alcohol in our culture. We associate it with rebellion, wild parties, fun, and sex. It is often seen as a way to get or fill us up with whatever seems lacking in personality or skill. Alcohol promises to make us whole but leaves us shipwrecked. Yet, everyone that uses it says "I can handle it". Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in our culture and actully kills more than speed or any other drug you could get on the street. Alcohol is dangerous stuff. I don't think most believers are able to make a clear distinction between the worldly and Biblical viewpoint. I fear that too many seek alcohol because it heightens carnal desires and promises to satisfy them. In this way there could be something terribly wrong with Christinas consuming alcohol. It is no good to hold on to Christian freedom if one is on the road to destruction. In the Bible wine is a good thing because it symbolizes the harvest and the abundance of God’s provision. Wine at a meal could be understood as a celebration honoring God’s care and love for us. A little wine can also have medicinal benefits. My Gandfather actully had a glass of doctor-ordered wine every night before bed. In the Bible, it helped Timothy with his stomach problems.

This is not how we treat alcohol in our culture. We associate it with rebellion, wild parties, fun, and sex. It is often seen as a way to get or fill us up with whatever seems lacking in personality or skill. Alcohol promises to make us whole but leaves us shipwrecked. Yet, everyone that uses it says “I can handle it”. Alcohol is the most dangerous drug in our culture and actully kills more than speed or any other drug you could get on the street.

Alcohol is dangerous stuff. I don’t think most believers are able to make a clear distinction between the worldly and Biblical viewpoint. I fear that too many seek alcohol because it heightens carnal desires and promises to satisfy them. In this way there could be something terribly wrong with Christinas consuming alcohol. It is no good to hold on to Christian freedom if one is on the road to destruction.

]]> By: BA http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-251 BA Fri, 20 Jan 2006 05:09:25 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-251 Pastor Rob, I almost didn't approve the comment because the link you pasted has false (unfounded) information concerning the consumption of wine and the Scripture. However, everyone should be heard to an extent. I will point out though that Biblical wine was alcoholic, period. It is doubtful it had the exact same alcohol content as wines today but it is similar enough. Drinking wine is not a sin and our Lord drank alcoholic wine. Getting drunk is a sin. In addition, many of the substances you put in your body are ten fold more deadly than alcohol (as a substance). I made my point in the original post though so enough about that. When someone starts putting some Scripture in to back their opinion then maybe we will have something to discuss (of course, that won't happen because there aren't any Scriptural proofs that I am aware of for such claims). P.S. Jesus should probably be capitalized in your writing. :) AMDG Pastor Rob,

I almost didn’t approve the comment because the link you pasted has false (unfounded) information concerning the consumption of wine and the Scripture. However, everyone should be heard to an extent.

I will point out though that Biblical wine was alcoholic, period. It is doubtful it had the exact same alcohol content as wines today but it is similar enough.

Drinking wine is not a sin and our Lord drank alcoholic wine. Getting drunk is a sin. In addition, many of the substances you put in your body are ten fold more deadly than alcohol (as a substance).

I made my point in the original post though so enough about that. When someone starts putting some Scripture in to back their opinion then maybe we will have something to discuss (of course, that won’t happen because there aren’t any Scriptural proofs that I am aware of for such claims).

P.S. Jesus should probably be capitalized in your writing. :)

AMDG

]]> By: Pastor Rob http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-250 Pastor Rob Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:48:25 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-250 The bible says leave no place for the devil.There are mental,physical and spiritual porblems with casual drinking and what it can and has lead to have been used to kill.You have to eat,you dont have to take medicine with alcohol in it. and you dont have to drink,it do not get you closer to the Holy Spirit yet the scriptures do allow us to drink from the spirit of GOD and get drunk by him. so why do we need to go to the bottle or a beer can when we have the Holy Spirit.That is a poor weak excuse to indulge are flesh and here is the deal ,Drunks have there company with the family of the flesh which GOD outcast from the Kingdom of GOD and place their destination in the lake of fire.And beer was unheard of in Christ day but the issue of the Jesus drinking wine, do a study on the wines of jewish and Greek culture.Jesus did drink wine only for consecration and paul delt with the use of it the wrong way can lead to death and todays wine is totaly different from wine today.TodaY WINE IS LOADED WITH DIFFERENT PROOFS of alcohol.The wine jesus used only for Consecration was not loaded with different levels of alcohol like todays. The bottom line if you are a christian and you want to get a high,GOD almighty is known as the most high GOD you want to drink wine and want to get a buzz or even high or drunk. And I am serious dont knock it until you try it and i have tried everything.Pray in the Spirit,praise and worship him for about an hour non stop Speaking in tounges.God himself will show up and blow your mind. Check out www.Logosresourcepages.org/Believers/drinking.htm The bible says leave no place for the devil.There are mental,physical and spiritual porblems with casual drinking and what it can and has lead to have been used to kill.You have to eat,you dont have to take medicine with alcohol in it. and you dont have to drink,it do not get you closer to the Holy Spirit yet the scriptures do allow us to drink from the spirit of GOD and get drunk by him. so why do we need to go to the bottle or a beer can when we have the Holy Spirit.That is a poor weak excuse to indulge are flesh and here is the deal ,Drunks have there company with the family of the flesh which GOD outcast from the Kingdom of GOD and place their destination in the lake of fire.And beer was unheard of in Christ day but the issue of the Jesus drinking wine, do a study on the wines of jewish and Greek culture.Jesus did drink wine only for consecration and paul delt with the use of it the wrong way can lead to death and todays wine is totaly different from wine today.TodaY WINE IS LOADED WITH DIFFERENT PROOFS of alcohol.The wine jesus used only for Consecration was not loaded with different levels of alcohol like todays.
The bottom line if you are a christian and you want to get a high,GOD almighty is known as the most high GOD you want to drink wine and want to get a buzz or even high or drunk.
And I am serious dont knock it until you try it and i have tried everything.Pray in the Spirit,praise and worship him for about an hour non stop Speaking in tounges.God himself will show up and blow your mind. Check out http://www.Logosresourcepages.org/Believers/drinking.htm

]]> By: Christendom Blogosis » Blog Archive » God & Weather / Christians & Alchohol http://www.pantokrator.org/2005/09/24/christians-consuming-alcohol/#comment-166 Christendom Blogosis » Blog Archive » God & Weather / Christians & Alchohol Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:29 +0000 http://www.pantokrator.org/?p=70#comment-166 [...] cellent passage. Not only does it touch on my previous blog entry, it also touches on the blog entry before that. Psalms 104:1-35 NET. Praise the Lord, O my soul! O [...] [...] cellent passage. Not only does it touch on my previous blog entry, it also touches on the blog entry before that. Psalms 104:1-35 NET. Praise the Lord, O my soul! O [...]

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