If we take seriously the Chalcedonian Christological reality that Jesus was 100% human (and 100% Divine) then it behooves us to believe that indeed He was not provided with some sort of “different-than” human body that does not get sick (he definitely got tired, hungry, thirsty, etc.). If that were the case there would be serious problems related to the concept of substitutionary atonement–because He then would not really be substituting for real humans (i.e. if He had a “different-than human body” from ours).

Good discussion, just give in to my points, it’s much easier that way !

Just a quick observation before I head out of town. I recently wrote about Jesus and healing and as I was reading through Scriptures on [...]

The problem with “experience” is that it does not acknowledge the unseen and faith is being convinced of what we do not see (Hebrews 11:1). We need to live by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7).

Matthew 17:14-20 NET. When they came to the crowd, a man came to him, knelt before him, (15) and said, “Lord, have mercy on my son, because he has seizures and suffers terribly, for he often falls into the fire and into the water. (16) I brought him to your disciples, but they were not able to heal him.” (17) Jesus answered, “You unbelieving and perverse generation! How much longer must I be with you? How much longer must I endure you? Bring him here to me.” (18) Then Jesus rebuked the demon and it came out of him, and the boy was healed from that moment. (19) Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why couldn’t we cast it out?” (20) He told them, “It was because of your little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; nothing will be impossible for you.”

I have not looked at it in detail but my response would be that Jesus was never physically sick. Definitely some good fodder for discussion.

AMDG

“I really don’t have the answer as to why Christians get sick and some even die of sickness/disease.”

Here’s one more passage to answer the “why” question here:

“The righteous perishes, and no man takes it to heart; merciful men are taken away, while no one considers that the righteous is taken away from evil.”

–Is. 57:2

I think that’s one good reason “why” Christians still get sick and die. Another good reason, I think, is discussed in Romans 8:12-39. The reality is, is that we still live in a fallen world in fallen bodies (mortal bodies soon to be swallowed by immortal bodies cf. I Cor 15). We wait in hope groaning for the revelation of the sons of God. Jesus indeed has done all to guarantee (II Cor 5:5) total wellness–but not now–he promised that to be normative in the future escaton (Rev. 21).

When reading narrative in the Bible, which gospel literature falls under, it’s important to, hermeneutically, keep in mind the distinction of “prescriptive” and”descriptive”. Narratives primary intent is descriptive, i.e. reporting the story line of the gospel message found in the life and time of Jesus (remember I said primary intent, I’m not saying there aren’t intentional didactic sections embedded in gospel narrative–i.e. sermon on the mount); but the examples you cite, Brian, are definitely of the descriptive sort which are intending to bare witness to the fact that Jesus is the promised son of David, son of God, etc. (various emphases represented by the gospel writers).

Brian said,

“However, I do know that the Scripture promises physical healing and that Christ took upon himself our sickness and diseases. I do know that Christ always healed everyone who came to Him (and asked Him) for healing (without delay). I do know that there isn’t any Scriptural proof for Christ “operating” differently today than He did in the New Testament. So that is pretty much where I stand on the subject at the moment.”

But, Brian, there isn’t any scriptural proof that the way Jesus operated while physically on earth was to serve as normative for the intradvental state. The burden of proof is really on you to show that Jesus’ operation was, and thus, is normative for today. This has nothing to do with whether he is the same yesterday, today, or tomorrow–it has everthing to do with Him working out His sovereign purpose–He heals some temporally and some He “heals” by allowing them to die and be “eternally healed”–for His own good/loving reasons.

BTW, Brian, do you think Jesus ever got sick when He was walking on this planet, He was completely human after all? I would argue that He did get sick and tired, pre-resurrected body; but His post-resurrection body (glorified body) never will get sick. We are still in the pre-resurrected body, longing in hope for our glorified bodies. I argued this way above, but you didn’t seem to think it was scriptural or substantial or something ; at least judging by your comments with blestwithsons.

Hope this adds some more healthy fodder for discussion!

I don’t believe there is a promise for feedom from “suffering” either. Perhaps I missed your point.

I encourage you to read my entry on why I blog if you haven’t already. That really is my purpose in all of this discussion. I really enjoy discussion/learning about Christ, the Scripture and anything to do with it.

We learn some parenting from experience but Scripture is our guide (it has clear teaching on the subject that my wife and I try to follow). I must mention it is difficult to follow the Scripture 100% of the time too, but we try.

I was specifically speaking of sickness/disease. I do take the position that every Christian is promised absolute physical healing from illness. However, I am not so sure about the “doing something wrong part”. I am not going to make that statement. I really don’t have the answer as to why Christians get sick and some even die of sickness/disease. Off the top of my head I can only think of one instance in the Scripture (NT) the question was asked about a person that was healed and Jesus answered the question in the great Godly fashion that He answered almost all questions posed to Him (I love His answers).

John 9:1-3 NET. Now as Jesus was passing by, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. (2) His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who committed the sin that caused him to be born blind, this man or his parents?” (3) Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but he was born blind so that the acts of God may be revealed through what happens to him.

So for me I don’t know the exact answer. However, I do know that the Scripture promises physical healing and that Christ took upon himself our sickness and diseases. I do know that Christ always healed everyone who came to Him (and asked Him) for healing (without delay). I do know that there isn’t any Scriptural proof for Christ “operating” differently today than He did in the New Testament. So that is pretty much where I stand on the subject at the moment.

James 5:14-15 NET. Is anyone among you ill? He should summon the elders of the church, and they should pray for him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. (15) And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the Lord will raise him up — and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

I am not currently sick, however, I do get sick from time to time…I am surely not making the claim that I never get sick. I don’t believe we can ever waste brain power when we are discussing The Word, however, I do know what you mean. Many times I “blog out loud” about things that I think about in my ongoing process to conform my mind to the Scripture. As always, I will continue my study of the Scripture and seek the truth in it as I mold my understanding and perception to God’s Word.

I enjoyed the discussion.

AMDG